Why isn't ice skating in the Paralympics?

Access All, March 2026: Why isn't ice skating in the Paralympics?

EMMA - That is your host of Access All, Emma Tracey, blind lady sliding her way down into a lock at four degrees and I'd like to think that's a metaphor for this episode where we will be looking into para winter sports. I mean that is the closest I will ever get.

Making a splash with me is Alex Taylor. Hi, Alex.

ALEX - Hiya.

EMMA - Can I just tell you that that was part of a spa day. I was about to get back into a big warm spa pool.

ALEX - And I'm not sure if it was calming for you because it's not a spa day in my mind.

EMMA - So basically I was at a spa day and there was a lovely big spa pool and a sauna and a steam room and they were all set up right beside a lock. And in lieu of a plunge pool for when you get too hot, the idea was that you would slide into the lock and then get freezing and then get back out and get into the nice warm sauna. There was another option Alex which I feel would have been maybe more accessible for you.

ALEX - Which option was it?

EMMA - A rope shower, so

ALEX - A rope shower?

EMMA - You pull a rope and a big bucket of ice cold water comes right down on top of your head.

ALEX - Lovely. That's just what I want. That's what I want in my spa days.

EMMA - So the slide that you heard me on there is like a metal slide that you'd have on playground and you're in just your swimming costume you go up and you sit on the slide and there's water going down the slide so it's the slides already freezing and it's metal and you sit down and then you just let go of a bar that you've been holding above your head and it slides you down and there is a bit of time if you listen to the audio there's a little bit of time between coming off the end of the slide and going into the loch.

You're in thin air for a minute but the problem with holding your breath for a couple of seconds before you go into absolutely freezing cold water is that it's then harder to catch your breath when you get in because you've already deprived yourself of a bit of oxygen.

ALEX - It's a lot to think about.

EMMA - What do you think that your interesting body with the cerebral palsy, how do you think it would react to being flung off a slide into a freezing lake?

ALEX - I think it would say what are you doing but I have actually dived I've got a licence .

EMMA - Tell me more about that.

ALEX - Scuba diving I'm not in my chair I'm out of my chair and then I I can swim but obviously it's it's intense but I'm not like you. I can see and I would still be scared stiff so I'm amazed.

EMMA - Oh thanks you're so patronising. And have you seen the new maid in Bridgerton? Yes she will be with me later for a chat. Here is a flavour of that

[Clip]

GRACIE - The costume team were incredible at asking me what I wanted, no spoilers, but I have a very posh outfit at the end of the show and that was amazing and I was very clear that I, as a character, wanted her to have a beautifully tailored shorter sleeve because that's an outfit that was very important to her that she would want to wear at all of her posh occasions.

[End of clip]

EMMA - But first, a lot has happened in disability in the last month so let's get in amongst it and let's get on with the show.

MUSIC - Theme music.

EMMA - I am Emma Tracy. This is Access All. Please do subscribe to us in the UK. It's on BBC Sounds and for the rest of the world, it's wherever you get your podcasts from. And if you'd like to get in touch, you can email accessall@bbc.co.uk.

It's finally here, the biggest event in this year's sporting calendar, it's the Winter Paralympics. The games take place in the Milan-Cortina region of Italy, with more than 600 athletes from 50 nations, all with big dreams to win gold. Sally Hurst is there for the BBC. Hi, Sally.

SALLY - Hi Emma. Yeah, here in Verona. We walked to the arena, which is where the opening ceremony is going to be on Friday. And we could actually hear them rehearsing and getting pretty busy here now with all the cafes are full. It feels really festive.

Not so many athletes though I have to say because a lot of them have opted to stay in the locations where the games are actually taking place. So Cortina in the mountains, all the Great Britain team are there actually. So none of them are actually coming, the athletes themselves, to the opening ceremony. So they've had to be a bit creative using video.

And also there's been a bit of controversy around Russian athletes taking part in these games under their own flag. That's the first time it's happened at a Paralympic Games since 2014. And in fact the Ukrainian athletes are boycotting the opening ceremony for that reason.

EMMA - We've all become a bit of an armchair expert, haven't we, having watched the Winter Olympics. It's been a great warm up for the Winter Paralympics. What sports should we be looking out for now?

SALLY - I don't know about you, but I saw a lot of curling during the Olympic Games. Curling is one of the sports here at the Paralympics that the Brits are good at. And it's the first time that mixed doubles has been at the Paralympic Games. It's a new sport here. And for Britain, we've got Jo Butterfield and Jason Keane competing. And Joe is actually trying to become the first Winter Paralympian from Britain to win golds in the summer and the Winter Paralympics because she previously competed in athletics.

EMMA - I've seen some stuff around David Ziw who is snowboarding.

SALLY - Yeah that's right he's really interesting actually and he we think he's like the first athlete with motor neurone disease to compete at a Winter Paralympics. And he was diagnosed at age 30. He was a really good snowboarder before his diagnosis and he actually wanted to become a professional snowboarder. But you know, life got in the way. He's actually a wine trader now. And it was the diagnosis of the motor neurone disease, which kind of brought him back to the sport.

EMMA - And what about international athletes?

SALLY - I think certainly the spectators here in Italy will be looking out for an Italian snowboarder who's called Emmanuel Paraffina. Now he was a snowboarder in the Olympics before he got injured and then he's come back in on the Paralympic side because of this injury and he was actually brought up just a few miles away from Cortina where the snowboarding competition is so I think there'll just be a massive roar when he comes out. And I suppose one of the other athletes to look out for is the USA's Oksana Masters. And she's got 19 Paralympic medals across summer and winter games. So she's competed in biathlon, cycling, rowing, and Nordic skiing. So she's going for her 20th medal.

EMMA - That sounds exhausting, Sally…wow!

SALLY – It does.

EMMA - Where can we find all of your coverage?

SALLY - Yeah, I'm covering the games for BBC News and Sport, so we will try and keep you updated across all of the BBC platforms, so the news, sports, Instagram.

EMMA - You'll be a busy lady, Sally Hurst.

SALLY - Thanks so much, Emma.

EMMA - Now, you might be scratching your head and wondering why ice skating isn't part of the Winter Paralympics. Despite it being one of the most popular sports at February's Olympic Games, the International Paralympic Committee says para-skating is yet to reach the required international level of participation or competition to be included. But there is a huge community of para-skaters trying to change that and we have two of them here on Access All. Margarita Sweeney-Baird, who's behind Inclusive Skating, which is in the UK and all over the world. And Rhiannon Parker-Nicholls, who had a stroke at 19, but before that, she was an elite skater.

Hi, Rhiannon. Skating's always been a huge part of your life, hasn't it? Tell me a bit about your early days of skating and the big dreams that you had.

RHIANNON - I started skating when I was seven and I fell into it completely by accident. Basically, I went to a birthday party when I was six and I just went, that's what I want to do.

I always say skating is like a Marmite sport. You either love it or you hate it. And for me, it was like a duck to water. I just absolutely loved it.

EMMA - And how often were you on the ice and what level did you get to?

RHIANNON - So between the ages of 7 to about 12, I skated probably 4 or 5 times a week, that then would be combined with doing off-ice training, so jumping, stretching, stamina training, strength training. I got more serious as I got into my teenage years, so I then was skating twice a day, 5 times a week. I got up to national level when I was 14, I'd just moved to training full-time in Sheffield and really set my sight on competing at the national championships I was hoping to qualify for in 2014.

EMMA - Then you became unwell. What happened and what impact did that have on your skating?

RHIANNON - So I moved to training in Sheffield full-time in July of 2013, so I was 14 at the time and unfortunately in the November of that year I started suffering with very severe headaches, blurred vision and motion sickness. We, being a teenager, thought that it was probably hormonal to start with, but very, very quickly by the start of 2014 I developed severe dizziness, vertigo and balance issues. and it felt rather like my entire world came crashing around my ears at the age of 15.

I went from being able to skate, no problems whatsoever, to having to cope with dizziness, neurological symptoms and fatigue that basically made skating impossible.

EMMA - Okay, and then you went on to have a stroke as well.

RHIANNON - I initially was under the head of the ENT at Sheffield Children's Hospital and his recommendation was I try to carry on skating because it trained and helped my vestibular system, which is what controls your balance and your dizziness. But I was advised against competing because I was struggling to see where the barriers were when I was on the ice, I couldn't see other skaters. So skating was very, very difficult.

EMMA - Are you skating now?

RHIANNON - Figure skating doesn't have a para category, it doesn't have any place for a skater with long-term health issues or disability, so while skating and sport have great benefits to your mental health, if you are trying to skate as if you are able-bodied when you are not, it can also have the complete opposite and be very draining and have a negative impact.

EMMA - So you'd love to see para skating in the Paralympics, how would it be adapted, What kind of a para skater would you be, do you think?

RHIANNON - I think absolutely there needs to be an expansion on all para sports, but particularly when it comes to figure skating. So with figure skating, the more you spin, the less dizzy you get, because your vestibular system retrains and learns how to cope with spins.

My body has completely lost that ability. So I have issues like blurred vision, etc. So competing in normal standard domestic competitions is physically impossible. My adaptability would be working with my symptoms instead of against them, so my dizziness for instance, I cannot complete three spins within three minutes because my dizziness is too severe. So a limitation on how many spin elements there were would be incredibly beneficial.

Things such as lighting being turned down in ice rinks. You know, the lights are incredibly bright, which can be really good for visuals, for the audience, actually can make dizziness and blurred vision worse for people like myself. So simple adaptions like that, that can make a really, really big difference.

EMMA - And actually, earlier I spoke to Margarita Sweeney-Baird, who has been trying to find ways around all of the challenges that Rhiannon mentioned.

Margarita, you have ice skating running through your veins, really, don't you? You're a previous Scottish ice skating champion. You are behind inclusive skating, which encourages disabled people to skate and is recognised the world over. And you're trying to get para skating into the Paralympics. How popular is para skating?

MARGARITA - Worldwide, it's very popular. Obviously, with skaters with additional needs, they've not really had as many opportunities, but as the inclusive skating system has become more and more established and people's awareness of the possibilities have increased. More and more people give it a go and there's also a lot more of them training to elite level because that's one of the things that we like in inclusive skating. We want the skaters to be able to take part even like once a week or with their families but we also want them to have the possibility of to train for championships and up to the Paralympic level potentially.

EMMA - How many para ice skaters would you say there are in the UK practising at least once a week if not more?

MARGARITA – Oh, I'd say around about a thousand.

EMMA - Brilliant. And what kind of impairments do these para ice skaters have?

MARGARITA - So we include everything, everything from autism, heart conditions, missing a leg.

EMMA - In terms of inclusive ice skating, how do the programmes that your athletes run, how are they different to the Olympic ice skaters, say?

MARGARITA - We actually run our technical skills right down to what I was going to say, like complete grassroots. So from someone that is coming out of a wheelchair that's beginning to use a frame, we've created technical elements that they can perform and we've filled in that entire base right the way up until it joins with the Olympic programme. And the other thing that's really quite different though is that our technical handbook provides them with a much wider range of opportunities. Because for the inclusive skaters, we find that a lot of them are maybe more susceptible to injury, or they've got to be protected from doing too many jumps. So we've got things like solo free dance, compulsory elements, free elements, that gives them a much wider range of opportunities.

EMMA – What's free dance?

MARGARITA - Solo free dance. The skaters love it. We had a number of skaters that had back conditions and they weren't allowed to jump. So it allows them then to skate, a lovely artistic free skating programme, but there's no jump specified as a technical element.

EMMA - Now we were talking about this, para ice skating in the team and I as a totally blind person and a person with no balance, by the way, said I would absolutely not give it a go, but your daughter is visually impaired and she does it. How does she manage?

MARGARITA - Well, she's obviously been skating since before she lost her sight because she's got a progressive condition. She's got Bardet-Biedl. But for someone like yourselves, what I would suggest is we've got these special frames which have actually got like a curve around you and then you can put your arms on top of it to hold as a handle. And they've got two extension posts at the side where guides can actually hold on and guide you.

EMMA - The longer I do this podcast, Margarita, the more I realise I don't have an excuse for anything anymore. Everything I want to not do, because I can't see, someone's figured out a way to do it. I'm not delighted about that. Your daughter though has an earpiece, right?

MARGARITA - Yes, she does, because she's obviously more advanced. So she's doing things like axel jumps and proper skating programmes.

EMMA - What's an axel jump?

MARGARITA - So an axel jump, you take off on a forward edge, do one and a half rotations in the air and then land on a back edge. And it's the gold standard of becoming a skater.

EMMA - Right, OK. So she has an earpiece and someone talks her through where she keeps her right?

MARGARITA - Exactly, because she likes skating fast. So she's moved on to having an earpiece. And then I speak to her on a WhatsApp call and I tell her whether or not to go right or left, or normal is a word that we use quite a lot, where I know what she's going to do, so I can tell her that she can just carry on as normal and follow the agreed path.

EMMA - How hopeful are you that para ice skating will make it into the Paralympics one day?

MARGARITA - I'm very hopeful and we've got some exciting news to share. Last week we became a recognised international federation with the International Blind Sport Association. So the International Blind Sport Association is the international organisation that is responsible for the visually impaired taking part in the Paralympics. There'll be a lot of work still to do but I'm very very hopeful that it's going to be in the Paralympics.

My deadline I think would be for Switzerland in 2038 because at the moment they've only got six Paralympic sports in the Paralympic programme so they're short of events so the sense that I'm picking up from people that they're very supportive.

EMMA - What competitions are there coming up where we can see some para ice skating?

MARGARITA - We've got the World Inclusive Para Skating Championships taking place in East Coast Bride as part of the Glasgow 2026 Festival. And then before that we've got the British Open taking place down in Milton Keynes. And then we've got our big event which will be the World Inclusive Skating Championships taking place in London at Lee Valley.

EMMA - And how many countries will be taking part in that?

MARGARITA - We've got currently over 30 countries taking part in inclusive skating, from Australia, Singapore, Japan, China, right the way across to America. So the big limiting factor for everyone just tends to be funding, whether or not they can actually fund the airfare. And what we try to do is we try to run it virtually as well, so if people can't travel, all, we also then will very often provide a virtual option.

EMMA - If you are a Paris skater at any level, I want to hear from you. Tell me about your passion. Tell me about all the adaptations that you use.

Email me accessall@bbc.co.uk.

And for all who will be watching, enjoy the Winter Paralympics.

MUSIC - We're not just a podcast. Find Access All on social media and read our articles on the BBC News website.

EMMA - Families have been telling Access All about the lack of choice they've had when their loved ones have been moved into nursing homes, alongside people much older than them, people they can't relate to.

Now later, I'll be speaking to Yvonne, who was moved into a nursing home against her wishes after a hospital stay when she'd have preferred to go back to the three-bedroom home where she lived.

But first, BBC Disability reporter Erica Witherington is here. Now, Erica, you covered a story on BBC News about Lucinda, which prompted people to come forward with their experiences. Tell me a little bit about Lucinda and her situation.

ERICA - Hi, Emma. Thanks for having me. Well, Lucinda is 33 and until last April, she had been living independently in her own adaptive bungalow in Billingshurst in West Sussex, and she had a high level of nursing care she had one-to-one nurses around the clock but that meant that she was able to lead a very independent life. She was studying for a master's she was judged one of the most influential disabled people in the country two years in a row she's done all sorts of pioneering work on eye gaze technology that she uses herself. She had a motability van so she was getting out she was seeing friends she was going to university she had a dad popping in every day she told me she had a really lovely life at home with her nurses, but then last April she did go into hospital with pneumonia ended up having to stay a long time and then just before Christmas she was told by the NHS that she wouldn't be going back to her own home again like she'd hoped and expected to she was told instead they were going to take her to a nursing home. Now that's something that Lucinda totally refused nevertheless earlier this month Lucinda's powered wheelchair was switched off and she was pushed into an ambulance that then transferred her to a nursing home an hour away from her home and her family. Lucinda sent me a message that day saying she was just absolutely devastated and that she wanted to get home now. Now I put all that to an independent lawyer. He told me that moving an adult with full mental capacity against their will is totally unlawful. So I was in touch with NHS Sussex. They told me they do recognise that Lucinda has capacity and they didn't explain how they'd come to any sort of legal rationale about moving her. They did say though that they are committed to working with Lucinda to make sure she receives high quality and safe care to meet her needs.

EMMA - Do you know what's happening with Lucinda now, Erica?

ERICA - Well she wasn't in that nursing home for very long. Her mum said that just after two days they were called in the middle of the night and they got there to find that Lucinda's condition had deteriorated and she was then moved by ambulance back to another hospital, a bit closer to the nursing home, so it's still a long way from her family and that's where she still is now with this continuing sort of impasse going on with the NHS about where she will now receive her long-term care.

EMMA - You contacted the nursing home where Lucinda was brought, what did they say?

ERICA - Yes, that's Temple Grove Nursing Home and they said that they can't comment of course on her specific clinical details but they did say we can confirm we did admit a resident on Monday and whilst we were able to meet their needs, it was agreed by all parties that our home did not provide a long-term solution to their ongoing wishes and needs. As such, and with the agreement of the resident and their family, the individual has now been moved to a hospital setting.

EMMA - Erika Witherington, Disability Reporter for BBC News, thank you for joining me.

ERICA - Thank you.

EMMA - Waiting to speak to us in Sunderland are Yvonne and her sister Jean, who's going to with this interview. Yvonne has a learning disability and has been in a nursing home for 18 months.

Hi Yvonne, how are you?

YVONNE - Alright.

EMMA - What do you enjoy doing? What do you do with your days Yvonne?

YVONNE - Nothing.

EMMA - Do you watch television?

YVONNE - No.

EMMA - Do you listen to music?

YVONNE - No. Don't know where my thing is.

EMMA - What do you enjoy?

JEAN - Tell them what you used to do before you came into the home.

YVONNE - I used to like it at home. I used to walk about.

EMMA - And did you go out places?

YVONNE - Yeah, yeah, yeah. The centre.

EMMA - The day centre?

YVONNE - Mm-hmm.

EMMA - And can you remember what you used to do when you went to the day centre? Did you do any arts and crafts?

YVONNE - Yeah, I did. And Christmas stuff.

JEAN - Did your nails.

YVONE: Yeah.

EMMA - Do you remember what colour your nails were?

YVONNE - Pink in the moment.

EMMA - Oh, right. Who did your nails for you this time?

YVONNE - I don't know because there's that many staff.

EMMA - Do you get to know the staff, Yvonne?

YVONNE - Yeah, I have.

EMMA - And do you have any friends where you live now?

YVONNE - Just a couple.

JEAN – Because they're all poorly people, aren't they?

YVONNE - Aye.

EMMA - Tell me about your house, because you have a big house, don't you, Yvonne, that you used to live in?

YVONNE - Yeah, I have got a big house.

EMMA - What's it like?

YVONNE - … it was bloody ages for I go

JEAN - It's ages since you've been there, is it?

YVONNE - It's ages before I've been.

JEAN – Then used to, make you a cup of tea?

YVONNE - Cup of team and some biscuits?

EMMA - So you were independent woman?

YVONNE - Yeah.

EMMA - Do you remember the day you went into hospital?

JEAN - When you slid off your chair?

YVONNE - I slid off my chair, but I can't remember what day I went in.

EMMA - Did the ambulance come, Yvonne?

YVONNE - Yes, it did.

EMMA - And did they take you into hospital?

YVONE - Mm-hmm.

EMMA - Yeah, okay. I'm going to ask Jean some questions if that's okay, Yvonne. Give you a wee break.

What did you think was going to happen when Yvonne went into hospital that day?

JEAN - I thought she would just go into hospital to check her over and then I'd collect her the next day.

EMMA - And what happened?

JEAN - Nothing really, there was very little communication.

EMMA - She ended up staying there a long time didn't she?

JEAN - Yes she did. She stayed there a long time because to be honest I don't think they knew what to do with her. It was quite sad that she went in there as basically an independent person and came out unable to walk. With very little physio, I kept asking them to get her out of bed, but every time I went in she was in the bed.

EMM - Tell me, how long was Yvonne in hospital?

JEAN - Approximately 13 weeks.

EMMA - She had a home, why could she not just go straight back home?

JEAN - Because they had a trainee social worker that was coming to the hospital. They had a learning disability liaison officer actually based in the hospital. And there was no one giving any answers. When you were asked, when's Yvonne going home? How are we going to get her home? Well, how's she going to cope? Well, sorry, she coped before she went in there.

EMMA - How was it decided that she'd go into a home and how was the home she's in now chosen?

JEAN - I actually found the home. The social worker gave me three places to have a look at because Yvonne was coming in here for a period of six weeks for rehabilitation and the six weeks have turned into this length of time now. It's ironic that yesterday After a long gap I got a phone call of the social worker who said right we're gonna set things in motion to get Yvonne home.

EMMA - Jean do you think that's anything to do with the fact that I sent him an email asking what was going on?

JEAN - Yes.

EMMA - Did the social worker sound quite positive then? Do you think she will get home now?

JEAN - Oh yes she sounded positive. It's her home, my mother left it to her. It's all done out, she's got all new stuff in there. Mind here, this care home is second to none, I have to say.

EMMA - You don't have a problem with the care home at all?

JEAN - Not at all. Would you like it if you go home?

YVONNE - I would like to go back home when I belong.

EMMA - Yvonne and Jean, thank you so much for talking to me. I appreciate it, it's not an easy conversation. Thank you.

Now, I spoke to the hospital where Yvonne was staying and they've decided not to comment at this time.

Yvonne is under Sunderland City Council and they told us.

(UNKNOWN SPEAKER) - While we're unable to disclose or discuss the details of individual cases, we can confirm that we are fully aware of the matters referenced and are actively engaged in progressing an appropriate resolution that meets the individual's assessed needs. We have considered a range of potential options and continue to work in close partnership with the family and the appointed occupational therapist to ensure that all viable and suitable avenues are thoroughly explored.

EMMA - If you've got any stories about having to move into residential or nursing accommodation against your wishes, get in touch. I'd love to hear from you. Email accessall@bbc.co.uk.

Have you, dear listener, been watching Bridgerton this season?

I love it and I'm loving that we get to know more about the staff, the maids and the footmen. Now this year's main character, Sophie, her fellow maid and bestie is played by Gracie McGonagall and Gracie's here to spill the tea about working on the Netflix hit and being an actor with one hand.

Hi Gracie!

GRACIE - Hey, thanks so much for having me.

EMMA - Thank you for being here. Now, Bridgerton is set in Regency London and you do play a maid and the maids have to pour an enormous amount of hot drinks on the show.

GRACIE - Very true.

EMMA - Did you actually worry about spilling actual tea?

GRACIE - No, I didn't panic because fortunately everything was empty, but trying to pretend that things were full of hot piping liquid was definitely the best acting that I've ever done, for sure.

EMMA - Did you have to be a bit choosy about what you carried and what kind of maid duties you did on film?

GRACIE - For sure.

EMMA - What kind of choices did you make that would help you?

GRACIE - I would always go for a smaller option. I think there's definitely, with a show like Bridgerton, there's always the most exciting, precious things to carry. Giant silver trays and beautiful baskets full of sweet treats and bonbons. And I was just making sure that I carried sort of appropriately sliced things that I could not drop in scenes, being mindful of my arm so that I didn't ruin any takes by accident.

EMMA - And did you have any near misses?

GRACIE - All the time. I think there was one that slightly made the cut, actually, of me accidentally dropping something quite loud onto a silver tea tray that I did grimace a little bit watching back.

EMMA - Tell us a bit about your character in Bridgerton.

GRACIE - Oh, Hazel's fun to play. She's witty, she's bubbly, she's a bit of an airhead, but then also very wise, and she's got this kind of witchy thing about her. She likes to think she's a bit of a spiritual diva, which is kind of ridiculous, because she definitely isn't, but I think she likes to feel that she is.

EMMA - Was Hazel's arm mentioned in the show at all? And how, you know, how do you feel about the way she was portrayed?

GRACIE - Briefly, briefly, briefly. It was mentioned in a very, very small thing, but genuinely blink and you'll miss it which was actually in a nice way it was it was kind of a gesture I think from the writers to be like hey like we're acknowledging that she has a disability and it was a a brief chat between the character of Benedict and um his mother Violet um and it was essentially like hey do you do you mind that she has one hand and it's like no of course she as long as she can do her work you do her thing.

EMMA – Was it made much of a thing of on set?

GRACIE - No, not at all. My arm is a part of me but it's an extension of me. It's not my most exciting feature. I've said this a couple of times recently and it always makes people go what? But I didn't realise I had a disability until about three or four years ago when I started kind of acting professionally. And I know that sounds crazy because I literally don't have one of my hands. But I genuinely didn't know, because in my head when you adapt things you're like well there's nothing I can't do, so maybe I don't have a disability but actually when I've started working in theatre and on stages other people see it and it's definitely made me have a bit of a conversation with myself and sort of get to know my disability anew, as an adult.

EMMA - So what was that conversation that you had with yourself and what was the result of it?

GRACIE - That it's not a bad thing. Disability is not a dirty word. I'm a very happy disabled person who's thriving and doing well and acting and I am an actor who has a disability but, as of where the climate is with acting at the moment and in TV and film and theatre I'm still in many ways paving the way which I'm putting in heavy quotation marks because it's not really true or at least I don't like that as a thing but I definitely am being spoken to a lot of the time, like it's the first time anything's ever happened. And it is in terms of like, Bridgeton, no one with an arm like me has been on Bridgeton before and therefore I am the first and therefore that is very exciting. But it means that I've had to have a conversation with myself and realise like, oh, the impact of me doing things is greater than me just being happy that I've booked a job.

EMMA - Staying with Bridgeton for a minute, because we have to talk about the costumes.

GRACIE - Yes.

EMMA - The Bridgeton costumes are as important as the characters…

GRACIE - They're so good.

EMMA - … in a lot of ways. Tell me, what kind of conversations did you have around sleeves?

GRACIE - The feeling of having an outfit, especially a Regency one, made for you. Like, that is incredible, because they are so beautiful and well-made and lined and lush fabrics. But yes, the subject of sleeves is quite an important one to me. I'm constantly adapting my own sleeves in my day-to-day lives, like cutting my left sleeve off, or sewing it, or I do this trick with a hairband where I sort of pull it through so I can keep the sleeve long, but I can adapt the length of it depending on what I want for the day.

The costume team were incredible at asking me what I wanted. No spoilers. But I have a very posh outfit at the end of the show. And that was amazing, and I was very clear that I, as a character, wanted her to have a beautifully tailored shorter sleeve because that was an outfit that's very important to her, that she would want to wear at all of her posh occasions going forward and that she'd never want to resell it and she'd want it to be just perfect and custom for her. Whereas her maid outfit, I think she wanted it to be maybe ruched up in case she needed to resell it or she needed to share an outfit with a friend, you know? But all of these conversations were out on the table regarding my limb difference, but also from a character point of view. It was really nice to be seen and heard in both aspects there.

EMMA - There's gonna be loads of young disabled people who have watched Bridgerton and seen you and went, oh wow, I want to be where she is and I'm struggling with various aspects. Can you talk me through your road to acting and where conversations about arms came into that.

GRACIE - Yeah. Unfortunately, the secondary school that I was at wasn't going to run it at a sixth form level, as in run drama. So I knew I had to leave because if I wanted to even give acting a go, I think I needed to study at post-secondary school. So I went to the Brit School.

The Brit School is this amazing free performing arts school in Croydon, in London, and it is this place where dreams are made of. Happily, happily go on record and say that. I had the most wonderful time there. I was so supported and pushed, and they gave me incredible training, and I feel really lucky that I went there and had all the opportunities that came with that. Not fee-paying, which, as people that know and are currently looking at getting into drama school education, that is not the norm, drama school is very, very expensive.

EMMA - You did that for sixth form, then what happened?

GRACIE - I did a foundation year at Mount View, which I had a lovely time at, but this is during the pandemic. So I was in my house doing ballet lessons on Zoom and it just wasn't for me. And I was auditioning at drama schools for the next year to do kind of a three-year BA. And I was getting a lot of quite unhelpful chat about casting and whether I would be a good option to take on as a student with the knowledge that that I might not, also in heavy quotation marks, have any work in the future. Because there's just not many roles on the West End, I guess, or on TV that are casting disabled people super actively. Now, I always knew that was silly because you have to forge your own path.

EMMA - That chat put you off.

GRACIE - For a minute I was a bit worried because it made me feel like I had to sort of back away and stay in education. But then I was like, look, maybe I just don't want to be in an institution for any longer. Maybe I just want to go out and try acting and see. So I had some wonderful chats with some wonderful other one-handed actors.

EMMA - Who is there out there?

GRACIE - Nadia Albina. She's wonderful. I think she's really fab and she took me out and she was like, girl, you need to A, stop wearing your prosthetic all the time and B, know that other people are gonna see you as disabled and therefore you should start really really owning it and I was like, yeah, you're so right.

EMMA - Tell me about the prosthetic and when and why you would wear that.

GRACIE - Well, I just thought maybe that it would open more doors in that I'm like, great, well let me just see if I can be judged for my skills regardless of my arm, you know.

In that, let me do a self-tape and not show my arm. Let me wear a prosthetic hand in case no one notices, which is actually really weird and sad and I'm sad that I thought I had to do that for a little bit.

EMMA - Why weird, do you think?

GRACIE - It's not me. If you feel really comfy wearing a prosthetic, you do that. But for me, it didn't feel like the most authentic version of myself at that time. I was just trying to please other people instead of doing things that made me feel strong and powerful.

EMMA - And now you're in Into the Woods in the West End.

GRACIE - I am. So, yeah, after all my sad drama school chat, I then just started auditioning for theatre and luckily just got jobs.

EMMA - What would your advice be for someone 16, 17, looking at you and thinking, what do I do now?

GRACIE - If there is more disabled actors, there will be more jobs, I promise. We're not just going to be fighting each other for the same job. There will be more jobs being made and we will have lots of opportunities. So therefore, join in, get your training, or not, and give it a go, because it might end up well for you.

EMMA - Gracie, thank you for being on Access All.

GRACIE - Thank you so much for having me, I've had a lovely time.

EMMA - Now there's been a lot of disability chatter over the last few weeks. The most prominent of it being about Tourette's Syndrome campaigner John Davidson. John was heard ticcing a racial slur during the BAFTAs while black actors Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo were on stage.

John himself was at the event because the film I Swear which was all about his life was up for some awards.

Tourette's is a neurological condition and the NHS says that the main symptom is ticcing. It involves repetitive sounds or movements which the person cannot choose or control. And roughly 10% to 30% of people produce socially unacceptable words as tics and that's known as coprolalia and can include swearing.

Alex, what's been the fallout from all this?

ALEX - It's been a big story but what happened was is that the BBC understands that the slur, wasn't heard and wasn't edited out of the show before it was aired two hours later. Now they have apologised for not editing it out and they've launched a full investigation into what happened. DJ Versatile is a DJ host and a black woman with Tourette's who appeared on BBC local radio with Kamilah McInnis.

[Clip]

It affects me from both sides, because it affects me as someone who has Tourette's and knowing the struggle that you go through daily and having to always apologise for stuff that you don't mean and how exhausting it is but at the same time, I've been on the other end where I've had intentional racism done towards me. And I've been called that word, you know, so I know the weight that it carries is heavy. And whether it's done intentionally or unintentionally, it still hurts because it's because of what is attached to and the experiences that come around it. So I completely understand, you know, my, my black community being offended and feeling hurt by it, rightfully so. But I also understand that John was, was not intending to hurt anyone. It's just the impact of that tic. It's just what comes with the word, unfortunately, do you know what I mean?

[End of clip]

EMMA - I spoke to TV and radio presenter, Aidy Smith, who also is the global ambassador to the Tourette's Association of America, and I talked to him all about what it feels like when a tic is brewing.

[Clip]

Imagine you've got a mosquito bite that you really, really need to scratch, and you kind of put off scratching it for as long as you possibly can, but then the urge becomes too big and you've just got to scratch it. That's when the tic comes out, you scratch. You get this momentary feeling of absolute relief, but then it comes back twice as much.

[End of clip]

EMMA - I love his analogy of a mosquito bite.

Now, John Davidson came on Access All just after the première of I Swear, the movie about his life. He went to the cinema to see the première, and that was the first time he'd been to watch a film in a cinema since E.T. came out in 1982 because he was so worried about what would happen in the cinema and how much he would tic. We talked about so many other things in that interview. It's about half an hour long. It's on BBC Sounds. It's well worth a listen if I do say so myself. He talks especially, we were really interested in living for 40 years with Tourette's and the toll that takes on his body. So yeah, take a listen to John Davidson, go back to the Access All archives there. And we have absolutely tonnes of articles about disability on the BBC News website, written quite a lot of the time by our series producer Beth Rose and by Alex Taylor as well. So keep your eyes peeled for those.

And I just also want to mention that over the last month, the school white paper was released by the government and within that, there have been some changes announced to the system for getting support for students with special educational needs or disabilities. And lots and lots and lots has been on about that online, but I would really recommend if you want to listen to a really great podcast about the SEND situation, go to Send in the Spotlight. It's a woman's hour podcast. It's full of really good information and really interesting stories about the system and they will keep making those. So we'll find out how everybody feels about the changes, et cetera. And I'm sure we will cover it on Access All as well in the future.

That is it for this episode of Access All and it has been so nice to get back in front of the microphone and speak to you all.

Last time I was talking about clothes shopping and the issues around it when you're visually impaired. Gail got in touch to say, I entirely agree with you. The few times I've ordered clothes online, even if I've had sighted help when ordering, I've not felt happy with the order. However much description you get, it's just so much better to feel close before buying them. She added that she really enjoys the podcast, thanks Gail, and learning about people's experiences of disabilities that are different to her own.

We're a monthly show now, but that doesn't mean that we want to hear from you any less. Please do get in touch. Email's your best bet. We're on accessall@bbc.co.uk.

See you next time. Bye.